Dr Abdu’l-Missagh Ghadirian is a Professor at McGill University, Faculty of Medicine in Montreal. He is a Fellow of the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons of Canada and a Distinguished Life Fellow of the American Psychiatric Association. He served for many years as a member of the Continental Board of Counsellors in the Americas. As an author and researcher he has published extensively and spoken in many universities around the world. He is author of several books, the most recent of which are Alcohol and Drug Abuse: A Psychosocial and Spiritual Approach to Prevention (2007) and Creative Dimensions of Suffering (2009). He is particularly interested in exploring the interrelationship of science and religion in society and the progress of civilization.

BW: Congratulations on the publication of your latest book, Materialism: Moral and Social Consequences. Why did you write it?

A.M. Ghadirian: My interest in writing a book on materialism was twofold: I noted a widespread sense of discontent and unhappiness in people of different walks of life, including the affluent, on the one hand and on the other, an insatiable craving for material things to quench a thirst for happiness. This was particularly striking in the industrialized countries of the world.

BW: Living in a material world, no one can escape from being materialistic to some extent.

A.M. Ghadirian: There is material need and material want. It is very natural to want to satisfy our physical and emotional needs. But when our want and desire for this satisfaction supersede our true needs and if these wants are unharnessed by reason, moderation and an understanding of the spiritual purpose of life, we may end up being prisoners of self.

BW: You mention that “Children whose families suffered from socio-economic deprivation or disadvantages showed greater materialistic orientation.” What practical steps families can take to avoid the perils of materialism?

A.M. Ghadirian: We should treat this statement in the context of family and cultural situations. Having said that, not all children of poor families who undergo socio-economic deprivation experience greater materialistic drive and orientation, but for those who do, for the majority it is a psychological compensation to have what their parents did not have. Moreover, children should be helped to realize that accumulation of money and wealth or the possession of fame and status do not necessarily bring an inner contentment and happiness. For this reason, one should strive to have a spiritual perspective about the meaning and purpose of life and develop deep and loving relationships with others.

BW: Some say that consumerism provides work to people, who in turn pay taxes to the government, from which citizens receive social benefits such as education, infrastructure, police services, health care, pension and so on. And in times of recession--the one we saw in 2007-2009--consumption goes down, unemployment increases, government runs a worse financial deficit, and public services take a hit. It seems there is a strong, positive correlation between consumer spending and social well-being. What do you think of this model of sustainability?

A.M. Ghadirian: I believe that you are raising a very important question. But if we promote the culture of consumerism and materialistic self-indulgence with the hope that the government will use the revenue for health, education and other social benefits, although this may be well-intentioned, it can run the following risky consequences. The government, especially in the developing countries, may not channel tax revenues for prosperity and the social good, but rather use it to benefit a wealthy privileged strata of society. Such a privileged segment of society may even support a corrupt system of government as has been seen in many poverty-stricken countries. In the industrial and developed countries, this plays out in a different way. A large percentage of tax revenues goes for the stockpiling of weapons of mass destruction or for other political purposes.

On the other hand, by encouraging unregulated consumer interests, we stimulate and support the production and supply of goods, much of which may not be in the best interest of a healthy society. In today’s world, a large number of products available for entertainment satisfy the senses beyond the bounds of moderation and foster passivity and unlimited self-indulgence. I believe that consumption and productivity should be based on society’s essential needs with moderation and should correspond with the best interests for physical, psychological and spiritual needs of citizens. In other words there should be a healthy balance, which does not seem to exist at present.

Regarding recessions, research studies indicate that there are some beneficial effects such as turning people’s attention from money-mindedness to a greater attention toward caring for each other and positive relationships. However, when recessions are long and deep they can bring hardship and suffering. The recent recession (2007-2009) was the unwanted offspring of an unrealistic and irrational marketing of houses and other goods without taking into consideration consumers’ lack of ability to pay for what they bought. By psychologically inducing consumers to behave in this manner, those who were responsible for this development, they also caused the system to break down.

BW: Is there a role for our education system to play in breaking away from the “cycle of neediness” and finding balance between materialism and intrinsic values?”

A.M. Ghadirian: The present educational system is materialistic in nature partly because the parents and the providers of education of children harbor a consumer mindset. This “cycle of neediness” will continue so long as there is no education on the spiritual perspective of the nature and purpose of life combined with self-discipline and moderation. To achieve a balance between our intrinsic values and our material wants, we need to acquire a deeper understanding of our spiritual destiny of life on this planet. The spiritual solution to economic problems enshrined in the teachings of Baha’u’llah provides a blueprint for developing insight to achieve this balance.

BW: As you point out, 4,000 books on happiness were published in 2008. Is it true that contentment is not just one thing but a combination of many? For example, if there were such a notion as an Index of Contentment, it would be composed of family life, health, occupation, neighborhood and values, for example.

A.M. Ghadirian: I agree that developing a sense of contentment is a multi-faceted phenomenon. Human nature is complex. We are pulled in our daily life between our higher or spiritual nature and our lower or instinctual and greedy nature. As a result, life is a daily struggle but this struggle is necessary for ultimate perfection of our mind and soul as we will take a new journey beyond this earthly life. As Viktor Frankl pointed out “man’s main concern is not to gain pleasure or to avoid pain, but rather to see a meaning in his life”.* When happiness becomes an expression of a deeper inner contentment, one does not need to rely on a material substitute for happiness. Abdu’l-Baha stated that there are two types of happiness: material and spiritual. “Material happiness never exists; nay it is but imagination, an image reflected in mirrors…”** Based on this, the so-called “happy experience” is nothing but pleasurable gratification which is time limited and depends on external stimulation.

BW: You mention in your book that according to Baha’u’llah, the founder of the Baha’i Faith, one can enjoy everything that this world has to offer as long as it does not interfere with one’s relation to God. How challenging would you say it is to accomplish this?

A.M. Ghadirian: If we go back to the concept of moderation, I think enjoying life and possession of wealth are possible so long as our possessions do not become a barrier or a veil between us and our Creator. But this can be a formidable task if we fail to learn detachment. As Christ said, “And again I say unto you, it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.” We need to be less self-centered and more other-oriented.

BW: Some say that globalization is the equalizer of extreme wealth and poverty in the world. What are your thoughts?

A.M. Ghadirian: Globalization has a long way to go to bring about true equity and equality with regard to the extremes of poverty and wealth. So long as there is no social justice and no mindfulness of the unity of humankind as a family, globalization cannot be accomplished. At present, globalization is sought after as a tool for material distribution of wealth. But in order for it to have a transformative effect, there needs to be a spiritual transformation through the creative Word of God and love for humanity.

BW: What are the three things that you hope readers will take away from this book?

A.M. Ghadirian: My reflection on your question leads me to the following ideas:

1. To re-examine our attitude toward money and material wealth, which are considered by many as the source of happiness. A shift of consciousness from excessive material attachment to contentment and spiritual mindfulness is necessary to sustain a balance between these two forces in our daily life. Moderation is the key word in this process.

2. To make a distinction between human needs and wants for maintaining a healthy quality of life. The book raises our awareness of the pervasive influence of a materialistic way of life which is constantly promoted through glamorous marketing and seductive advertising. This awareness should help us to recognize the importance of intrinsic values, the influence of self and desire on our choices and the spiritual principles enshrined in the teachings of Baha’u’llah.

3. To recognize the need to eliminate the extremes of wealth and poverty. The solution to this challenging problem will require a sustained effort to establish social justice and an equitable distribution of wealth. Social justice and equality of rights will not be possible without recognizing the spiritual nature of human beings and the primacy of the unity of humankind as one family.

BW: Thanks you so much for this interview and wish you the best.

A.M. Ghadirian: You are very welcome. I hope that this dialogue will be of some help to those who are interested in this challenging subject with which we are all confronted in our daily lives.

To our readers, A.M. Ghadirian would love to hear from you. Click on ‘comment’ below and send your questions, comments, and notes of appreciation.

* Frankl, Viktor, Man’s Search for Meaning (New York: Pocket Books, 1963), p. 179.
** Abdu’l-Baha, Star of the West, (Oxford: George Ronald Publisher, bound vols. 1978), 7, 163.